From sets to just ratchets, and all 1/4dr hand tools including bit drivers and bit ratchets...etc let's talk about them here.
I'll start this off with my " baby ", it's my ultimate decked out 1/4dr kit.
This kit gradually happened like pulling a loose thread from a sweater.
I started with a WRIGHT tool 2426 contour grip ratchet, from there I added the flex head, next came the flex handle, then I decided to add the entire rest of the WRIGHT 1/4 set and it eventually just kind of spiraled from there.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjm8BsT1/20250122-164208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9PFdzCP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fRg50wVb/20250122-164305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJnXxPBy)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYftzN8T/20250122-164312.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3WfjpBJq)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z5yvVZfn/20250122-164318.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFhMMLZZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/25VcH1sv/20250122-164442.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FgmczPP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLVwS6Kf/20250122-164729.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyFVwzFf)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RCkBwBnX/20250122-164712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5Wpc2gC)
Basically it's a really complete 1/4 set that also includes some other small tools that often come in handy when working on small engines and other things that mostly have fasteners in the 1/4dr territory.
I originally started with a MAC MC1 box but outgrew that, so I upgraded to a SNAPON " Party box " that found on Ebay.
It was initially intended as a stop gap standin for a Snapon KRA149 but I don't think I'll ever be able to afford what they fetch and I'm not sure it would end up working out as well as this little " Party box " that originally housed a poker set.
One goal for this set was that I wanted every tool in it to be American made, and with the exception of the little Japanese made Anex brand hammer I achieved that.
Everything including the VA bits and driver sockets.
Are we a Taryl fan boy?
Quote from: Elroy on Jan 22, 2025, 06:01 PMAre we a Taryl fan boy?
I stumbled upon him some how. Now my son love his skits.
still an impressive set. looks like a few changes since we last saw it.
interesting hammer. any info?
Quote from: skfarmer on Jan 22, 2025, 07:03 PMstill an impressive set. looks like a few changes since we last saw it.
interesting hammer. any info?
I don't remember all the details, but it's a little guy made in Japan by a company called Anex.
They generally come with additional brass and nylon faces, but this version just had 1 flat and one rounded steel face with no extras.
They're also available in blue from Tamiya.
It wasn't terribly expensive, but i did have to get it from an Ebay seller located in Japan.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373764384249?_skw=Anex+micro+hammer&epid=5067033854&itmmeta=01JJ8NTS7W9Z31XTP52PMSV2YR&hash=item570617e5f9:g:HfQAAOSwQuJhcgh9&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKnPbX40K%2FvTQ%2FJp%2BtcfS5vhhIOtD0ooGnEIaqVdnundiBoPJHpB8xKoyaSmB5Uz0LFVa4KL%2BOGbKz3%2Fiz8HPujX5bio9o%2BDf%2BBs1dzQgQQOXw7IRlXptKD95C%2F1W1%2FfkH6U13xGpyPzBiM%2FupzzstsoknQyt1jhRZnXf6e9jkGCsMOmYLlEWQ4Yupy7eLJ7Its%2B10Rl7p0Ly6yHsVUozo0ABf%2B6ubXCZlmiv7WI8RlV2bZph2T3pt6wDRUOECsGf5V3%2FaBWHOmfYZtyJ4YSR%2FKCg2CNu%2BgT%2FymHM%2FqK8SxuFA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMhpTrlZJl
I can't remember all the changes I've made, I think mostly just adding the hammer and the Mayhew mini pry bars.
They are modified,I shortened them and added Striking caps.
Quote from: Muddy on Jan 22, 2025, 06:52 PMQuote from: Elroy on Jan 22, 2025, 06:01 PMAre we a Taryl fan boy?
I stumbled upon him some how. Now my son love his skits.
I introduced my dad to him awhile back,and now he has asked me to get him a Taryl hoodie for his birthday.
I got my uncle one of their BenSHOT glasses with the 10mm socket in the side this past Christmas and he's started watching the channel as well.
The skits are fun and the channell informative.
Here's a 1978 (dated ratchet) Wright 1/4 set I love, I added the modern driver handle and swapped it from the original blow mould case to this Thorsen Action case gifted to my by J.A.F.E that I rehabbed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQK2rNXm/20250122-165230-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TpTymVjb)
Here is a basic SAE 1/4 Indestro set I use frequently in my garage.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C51pZzfK/20250122-165418.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJW4hj5r)
The sockets and extension were my grandfather's, I was missing the 1/4 and a forum member helped me out a a number of years ago.
The breaker bar came from another member, then the ratchet I bought on Ebay and liked it better than my grandfather's worn 6072 so I keep it together as a convenient quick grab little set.
My current 1/4 ratchet collection drawer, I enjoy using some of them but they're not the primary users.
With the exception of one Japanese PROTO copy they're all domestic.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwpqHyyc/20250122-164541.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HVfGcg7P)
5 of these came from Forum members.
Very nice collection Hickory. That set is a prime example of functionality and given the small spaces we are forced to work in these days in our automobiles, it's definitely a huge plus to own such a collection.
The only suggestion I would have is to add a set of 3" and 6" flexible extensions to the mix. Those little spring wound extensions have saved my bacon on many occasions.
Quote from: goodfellow on Jan 23, 2025, 05:56 AMVery nice collection Hickory. That set is a prime example of functionality and given the small spaces we are forced to work in these days in our automobiles, it's definitely a huge plus to own such a collection.
The only suggestion I would have is to add a set of 3" and 6" flexible extensions to the mix. Those little spring wound extensions have saved my bacon on many occasions.
I haven't needed one yet, but may think about adding one.
Did I ever mention that I hate 1/4 driver handles ?
A few years back I had trouble trying to order a Wright spinner handle, ending up with the 2442 driver handle instead of the 2441 spinner and then eventually ordering a 2442 for again before finally figuring out the problem and ordering the 2441 spinner handle.
Well I just went through this same trouble again.
I recently decided to finally start completing my Craftsman 1/4 set, and one of the things I need is the spinner handle.
I went on Ebay and found plenty of very clean to NOS examples of the black handle H code 43372 " extension " handles, and bought a clean example for $12.
I knew Craftsman offered both types, but since I was going for the black handle I just took the word " EXTENSION "stamped onto it to mean that it acts as an extension and is the tool I wanted.
If it were the older clear acetate it would have jumped right out at me that there was no drive end in the handle but I didn't bother to look at the butt end.
Well I decided to brows a little more to look into those stubby models, and that's when I saw the the clear acetate 43372 which was obviously not a spinner handle which made me double check my purchase.
I did not find any of the 43371's available so I'm not going to cancel my order, for the price I payed I'll just modify it.
I'll pull the handle, drill all the way through, and fit a spare Craftsman extension I have to turn it into a spinner handle.
I kind of want a shorter one for this set anyways.
I just ordered a rebuild kit for my Craftsman 43178 RHFT.
I received it from a forum member a few years back ( maybe Bman ?, trade gift or purchase I don't remember) and I think it needs a rebuild.
The body of the ratchet is in excellent cosmetic shape but there's a lot of slop in the mechanism and it kind of binds a bit here & there.
Hopefully the kit will solve the issues.
It was hard to find this rebuild kit until I realized that for some reason the kits reference the earliest model number for these ratchet.
Once I figured this out I found the kits to be plentiful and bought one for $20 shipped.
Good call =-- post up a pic of the kit and the model number. I'm sure many folks are in the same boat as you in trying to find rebuild kits for their older Craftsman RHFT ratchets.
Quote from: goodfellow on Jan 30, 2025, 06:31 AMGood call =-- post up a pic of the kit and the model number. I'm sure many folks are in the same boat as you in trying to find rebuild kits for their older Craftsman RHFT ratchets.
Will do.
Kit number 43426
https://www.ebay.com/itm/156530853473
I used what I had laying around to make a divider for the bottom drawer on the little MAC that I keep my Craftsman set in.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KcNvppw1/20250130-142736-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nYgmPJG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gkjdSz37/20250130-143321.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kD0kDd1N)
When I go to remake this and do it better, I'll get some thicker gauge sheet metal to use, and some much shorter pop rivets.
As a proof of concept it's good enough for now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j5FvYtDh/20250201-144607-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9RyyG3t4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/V664hdk6/20250201-144655-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y451G2gK)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0bpb1YS/20250201-145852.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/McM7pfnm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/c1KGgJB0/20250201-145928-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdjB4p5B)
The kit absolutely fixed the issues I was having, and I think the retention ring being slightly thicker has helped with the slop.
The teeth on the thumb wheel are much crisper too, I assumed the old one just had finish worn off but it's obvious now that they were actually worn down some.
These are a pain to deal with, but a pair of pliers modified like this make things much easier.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kDrcDsF6/20250201-150032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNRH4KZn)
This was the start of my 1/4dr addiction.
The remnants of an indestro set that belonged to my grandfather, and a challenger box that was sent to me by J A.F.E
(https://i.postimg.cc/XY57jqgt/20250210-200129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZzjLzWR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1NqXt9x/20250210-200008.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1H9P5yL)
I was missing the 1/4 socket, and another member helped me out.
I wanna say it was maybe muddy ?
I don't remember, that was maybe 8 years ago.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ncChW09F/20250210-200235.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crGWg7c2)
This is what I keep in my go box.
A JS TECHNOLOGIES Gov't surplus SAE set( Stanley sourced ), a matching set of metrics that I got from Cripe, and the original ratchet kind of sucks so I swapped it for a WRIGHT 2400.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYG6FcdD/20250210-192858.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdjcwSXw)
Snap on 1/4 dr. 1943-50. has a very rare TM3 1/4 tee
Quote from: snapmom on Feb 11, 2025, 05:44 AMSnap on 1/4 dr. 1943-50. has a very rare TM3 1/4 tee
That is really amazing. Very nice set.
That T handle is awesome.
Overall it's quite a cool set, nobody really makes cool 1/4 sets anymore unless their based around bit ratchets anyways.
I received this SK SPIN-KIT driver in a box lot of screwdrivers and bit drivers off Ebay a few months back.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx1NFq5D/20250210-194540.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJMcXyzC)
This machined delrin cap was on it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbbMzT1h/20250210-194552.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvGWp8yZ)
But this was in the box and I think it's the original.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9bd8njG/20250210-194619.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2YLxG6k)
There were no sockets in it.
If anybody wants this thing let me know and you can just have it.
Heck yes, if no one has jumped on that yet I will! I would love to have it!
Quote from: snapmom on Feb 11, 2025, 05:44 AMSnap on 1/4 dr. 1943-50. has a very rare TM3 1/4 tee
I have a 9/32 set from the same era. Pretty comprehensive, but not as much as the set shown. My set has no deeps, but might have the T handle. It's been a few years since I opened the box. Maybe 15 years ago a GJ member sold it to me for a fairly cheap price as I recall.
Quote from: Hickory n Steel on Jan 23, 2025, 08:14 AMQuote from: goodfellow on Jan 23, 2025, 05:56 AMVery nice collection Hickory. That set is a prime example of functionality and given the small spaces we are forced to work in these days in our automobiles, it's definitely a huge plus to own such a collection.
The only suggestion I would have is to add a set of 3" and 6" flexible extensions to the mix. Those little spring wound extensions have saved my bacon on many occasions.
I haven't needed one yet, but may think about adding one.
One of these days you will be working on something and find you need it. That is when you will be glad you have it.
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Feb 12, 2025, 07:42 PMHeck yes, if no one has jumped on that yet I will! I would love to have it!
It's yours, I sent you a message.
A Williams driver I've recently acquired.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z0459VT/PXL-20250315-043627098.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmW47D32)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTkn2nN5/PXL-20250315-043629709.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJh674KS)
Quote from: Muddy on Mar 14, 2025, 09:37 PMA Williams driver I've recently acquired.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z0459VT/PXL-20250315-043627098.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmW47D32)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTkn2nN5/PXL-20250315-043629709.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJh674KS)
that's a very nice condition William's spinner handle.
They were always a bit chintzier since they just used a square shank with stops pinched in and the female drive end was a seperate piece but I haven't seen one before that was broken.
I have seen a few of the PROTO spinner handles with busted female drives and had one from my grandfather that was broken, but WILLIAMS must have done something right that PROTO didn't.
Or maybe it's just because the M51 is / was such a small little ratchet.
I still need to get one of these William's spinner handles, but I'm not in too much of a hurry.
You talking about the ones that were all steel with a knurled handle that unsnaps and will freely rotate on the driver shaft?
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 20, 2025, 07:30 PMYou talking about the ones that were all steel with a knurled handle that unsnaps and will freely rotate on the driver shaft?
This one?
101_1887.jpeg
101_1889.jpeg
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 20, 2025, 07:30 PMYou talking about the ones that were all steel with a knurled handle that unsnaps and will freely rotate on the driver shaft?
I completely forgot about those.
But no I was talking about these regular acetate handled spinner handles.
Quote from: j.a.f.e. on Mar 20, 2025, 08:16 PMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 20, 2025, 07:30 PMYou talking about the ones that were all steel with a knurled handle that unsnaps and will freely rotate on the driver shaft?
This one?
101_1887.jpeg
101_1889.jpeg
Yup, very best driver handle ever IMHO.
I like them as extensions with a spinner sleeve. Williams also made them in 9/32 drive.
Quote from: j.a.f.e. on Mar 21, 2025, 05:32 PMI like them as extensions with a spinner sleeve. Williams also made them in 9/32 drive.
The only one I ever found I bought. I think it is a Walden Worcester. I think Blackhawk and several other of the early brands offered them too. Rarely found in my parts.
They are hard to find for sure.
But if I ever find another it will go home with me.
I definitely need to start looking for one.
These days I think they pop up fairly frequently on ebay. O clue as to the cost.
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 22, 2025, 09:10 PMThese days I think they pop up fairly frequently on ebay. O clue as to the cost.
In this case $40
(https://i.postimg.cc/KvcgTGDH/s-l1200-8.webp) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvhJd3KX/s-l1200-9.webp) (https://postimages.org/)
Right after my last comment I went on Ebay and found this one.
I posted a comment but somehow it disappeared.
$40 may have been too much, but it's the cheapest I found and the best condition example currently available too.
That seems very high cost to me. It's worth at most $20 to me. That guy is building a retirement nest egg in my opinion.
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 23, 2025, 04:41 PMThat seems very high cost to me. It's worth at most $20 to me. That guy is building a retirement nest egg in my opinion.
Pretty much my thoughts as well. 40 seems way high. I'd have to really want for even 20.
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 23, 2025, 04:41 PMThat seems very high cost to me. It's worth at most $20 to me. That guy is building a retirement nest egg in my opinion.
Sadly I have very few places near me to find stuff in the wild, and people always think everything old and interesting is gold.
Ebay is often my only option, but usually I don't pay this much more than things are worth.
It's something I'll likely never ever see in the wild, and the condition looks excellent.
Rarely ever do old tools cost me what they should, even when I do get to find them in the wild because literally everything cost more in California.
There is a lady here in town who's late father in law was a flea market tool vendor who left behind a whole storage locker full of tools.
Every couple of years they drag out a bunch of bins and have a yardsale, that's every couple of years and one of the few occasions I get to find old tools in the wild for cheap.
Beyond that every yardsale is just cloths.
The 2 flea markets I know of are slim pickings after the shutdown, and lately the goodwill stores in my area have gone down hill the past year.
You are correct that finding one in the wild is quite unlikely. In decades of rooting through flea markets, junk shops, pawn shops, garage sales, etc. I think I have only ever seen one of them.
Quote from: j.a.f.e. on Mar 23, 2025, 06:02 PMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 23, 2025, 04:41 PMThat seems very high cost to me. It's worth at most $20 to me. That guy is building a retirement nest egg in my opinion.
Pretty much my thoughts as well. 40 seems way high. I'd have to really want for even 20.
Agreed, I don't recall paying more than about $5 or so if memory serves. If I had an extra I would gift it to him. I had two of them, now my son has one of them.
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 12:39 PMYou are correct that finding one in the wild is quite unlikely. In decades of rooting through flea markets, junk shops, pawn shops, garage sales, etc. I think I have only ever seen one of them.
And that's why I was willing to pay the $40.
Quote from: Hickory n Steel on Mar 24, 2025, 07:28 PMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 12:39 PMYou are correct that finding one in the wild is quite unlikely. In decades of rooting through flea markets, junk shops, pawn shops, garage sales, etc. I think I have only ever seen one of them.
And that's why I was willing to pay the $40.
I cannot deny making the same decision for the same reason more than once myself. I can say that while costly, I doubt you will ever find a driver that is its equal. I count it my highest quality driver over all others, regardless the brand.
Quote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 10:02 PMQuote from: Hickory n Steel on Mar 24, 2025, 07:28 PMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 12:39 PMYou are correct that finding one in the wild is quite unlikely. In decades of rooting through flea markets, junk shops, pawn shops, garage sales, etc. I think I have only ever seen one of them.
And that's why I was willing to pay the $40.
I cannot deny making the same decision for the same reason more than once myself. I can say that while costly, I doubt you will ever find a driver that is its equal. I count it my highest quality driver over all others, regardless the brand.
I certainly can't think of anything cooler.
With that being said however it just dawned on me that I don't really know how these things work.
I know the grip can spin or be fixed in place , but how does that work?
I see a detent ball and I see a roll pin I believe but that's about all I really know.
The knurled handle slides up and down. Down it engages the detent ball and locks the handle. Up it disengages the detent and spins freely. The roll pin retains the handle from sliding further and holds everything together.
The top one is disengaged and the handle free spinning, the bottom locked like a normal spinner.
101_1887.jpeg
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: Hickory n Steel on Mar 25, 2025, 09:57 AMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 10:02 PMQuote from: Hickory n Steel on Mar 24, 2025, 07:28 PMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 12:39 PMYou are correct that finding one in the wild is quite unlikely. In decades of rooting through flea markets, junk shops, pawn shops, garage sales, etc. I think I have only ever seen one of them.
And that's why I was willing to pay the $40.
I cannot deny making the same decision for the same reason more than once myself. I can say that while costly, I doubt you will ever find a driver that is its equal. I count it my highest quality driver over all others, regardless the brand.
I certainly can't think of anything cooler.
With that being said however it just dawned on me that I don't really know how these things work.
I know the grip can spin or be fixed in place , but how does that work?
I see a detent ball and I see a roll pin I believe but that's about all I really know.
Quote from: Hickory n Steel on Mar 25, 2025, 09:57 AMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 10:02 PMQuote from: Hickory n Steel on Mar 24, 2025, 07:28 PMQuote from: Uncle Buck on Mar 24, 2025, 12:39 PMYou are correct that finding one in the wild is quite unlikely. In decades of rooting through flea markets, junk shops, pawn shops, garage sales, etc. I think I have only ever seen one of them.
And that's why I was willing to pay the $40.
I cannot deny making the same decision for the same reason more than once myself. I can say that while costly, I doubt you will ever find a driver that is its equal. I count it my highest quality driver over all others, regardless the brand.
I certainly can't think of anything cooler.
With that being said however it just dawned on me that I don't really know how these things work.
I know the grip can spin or be fixed in place , but how does that work?
I see a detent ball and I see a roll pin I believe but that's about all I really know.
You pull back on the knurled part of the handle and it will spin freely from the rest of the handle. On the knurled end of the driver there is a female drive for use with a ratchet or extension. The knurled part may slade forward instead of back on the center, I don't recall. To lock the knurled part simply slide it back into its original position on the center and it locks tightly.
I swung by an estate sale on my way back from the dog park, and picked this up
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54475747280_e57847efa9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qZQrL5)
It was a set made by Wright for Klein, but I still need to find a couple sockets (7/16 and 9/16) and the ratchet.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54474451026_9266703bcb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qZHNqS)
I seems that someone stuck the cardboard from the box it came in on the top, but the original decal is still in place.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54474810480_db63ba768c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qZKDhm)
Nice find -- those little goodies are getting much harder to find these days.
Is that a 3/8 set ?
Nice find either way.
Ha! it is a 3/8 set, not sure why I put it here. Senior moment, I guess.
Quote from: bmwrd0 on Apr 27, 2025, 01:55 PMHa! it is a 3/8 set, not sure why I put it here. Senior moment, I guess.
I was just wondering because I don't remember ever seeing a 1/4 tootsie roll handle from WRIGHT before.
After 3 or 4 years or so that Harbor frights version of the HI-FIVE flex head bit ratchet kit has been on the market and never in stock near me I finally got one today, and am disappointed that Harbor freight had some changes made to their version.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ncCS8FcG/20251017-135046.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLcjrKCh)
This is a VIM RBF400K, aside from being much longer they are made how the FACOM USAG & Toptul...etc have been for the 15 years or so that they've been around.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqhDcrqb/20251017-135451.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yxfnNZv)
They used an flattened corner on the extension and filled corner on the ratchet itself for the line up to pass through feature.
This is the current ICON.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8kyXnJDT/20251017-135208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14qK8zfd)
They switched to a tooth and groove arrangement.
I dislike this because the bits don't seat in as far which creates a couple issues.
It makes for a taller profile, and you can't push on the back of the bits to aid in removal.
Here are the 1/4 adapters from each
(https://i.postimg.cc/4Nm2CfNV/20251017-135533.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BXfBHGFn)
The VIM ( it's the best but lesser seen version of adapter ) is on the right.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gJstprZv/20251017-135606.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FdfVgrGR)
It's lower profile plus it protrudes just enough out the back ( intentionally and more so than the bits) to be able to push on it for easy removal.
You can use this one in the current Icon and it is still a lower profile adapter, but is hard to remove like every bit in the Icon .
The retention on the Icon is better (to be fair my VIM has less than it used to ) which is good, but bits are hard to remove and wouldn't be if I could push on the back to get them started.
I wanted to just swap the guts between the two, but other changes were made and they won't fit.