Most of us on the GH have been around a few years and have often wondered what would happen when the manufacturers stop supporting their rolling computers. If the ECU or other critical modules are discontinued, or the used/aftermarket dries up, your modern car is basically a static brick.
Well, leave it to the young experimenters and disruptors to challenge the proprietary corporate electronic design monopolies and come up with open source solutions. It's a relatively new movement, but growing steadily. Based on simple Arduino and/or Raspberry Pi processors, they reverse engineer the designs from scratch.
They're basically doing what upstart COMPAQ Computer Company did back in the mid 1980's to challenge the monopoly that IBM had on PC BIOS technology. Except this time they're developing a system that can be used across the board to function with existing wiring and sensor topologies.
It's worth taking a look at these efforts. Since most all of us on the GH take car of our cars and can potentially make them last for decades, We all may need to take advantage of these designs at some point in the future.
FYI -- in case you're thinking that this doesn't apply to you because you have an older carburetor, throttle body, or EFI system, then you may be disappointed. Parts, rebuild kits, aftermarket support is drying up across the board due to cost cutting and the fact that the business case for continuing to support older platforms is no longer viable. Historically reliable retail sources for these old parts are folding their tents more and more every year.
http://rusefi.com
Also:
http://www.diyefi.org
http://www.openecu.org/
http://speeduino.com
I`m glad someone is addressing this. Could be a real problem if not addressed.
Hopefully this won't impact the availability of parts for my newest old vehicle an 86 GMC square body. These days they do have strong aftermarket support with part suppliers.
I don't think supply and demand for restoration parts will dry up for 72 Chevy truck, 68 Chevelle SBC, 46 Ford, or 30 Ford model A. Hopefully demand for restoration parts will justify manufacturers to continue production and sale of these parts.
If you have a car/truck that over 20 years old then it's a gamble. Arguably the heyday for the most reliable and best designed cars from a technical perspective was from the early 1990s to early 2010s. Many of those vehicles are still being driven daily and since they were so popular, the parts are still cheap and available. However the push is on from the government and the auto industry is to get those vehicles off the road ASAP. The only way to accelerate that process is to dry up the aftermarket support.
The car manufacturers want you to buy new vehicles every 5 years (on average), and they design them now to last just that long. Soon after that the maintenance costs outweigh the value/utility of the vehicle.
Quote from: goodfellow on May 25, 2025, 06:54 PMIf you have a car/truck that over 20 years old then it's a gamble. Arguably the heyday for the most reliable and best designed cars from a technical perspective was from the early 1990s to early 2010s. Many of those vehicles are still being driven daily and since they were so popular, the parts are still cheap and available. However the push is on from the government and the auto industry is to get those vehicles off the road ASAP. The only way to accelerate that process is to dry up the aftermarket support.
The car manufacturers want you to buy new vehicles every 5 years (on average), and they design them now to last just that long. Soon after that the maintenance costs outweigh the value/utility of the vehicle.
I didn't have the resources to buy new vehicles or even late models at any point in my life, and chances are slimmer with each year older I get. The target audience you are speaking of has never included me. Granted, I am out of necessity the exception and not the rule. Fortunately for me I have seen few vehicles made since the 1980's that even stirred my interest. To my eye, every year that passes new vehicle offerings of any description seem to just get uglier, more obnoxious sounding, and increasingly only appear different in the brand badges they wear. I don't even like the trucks!
Got me curious so I did a little quick digging. According to my far from vigorous research turns out the average car/light truck on US roads is 12.5 years. Interestingly in Japan it's 9.3 years (excluding Kei cars) (the average age is older but that includes deregistered cars so presumably not on the roads). I can see where manufacturers want to change this I imagine selling a new car to you every year is their (adolescent) dream.
Some states like Pennsylvania (I know, it's not a state it's a commonwealth), Virginia (ditto), New York and such have safety inspections that in theory get the worst of the rolling disasters off the road but most states do not which probably increases the average age of vehicles on the road. Plus a lot of us are gear heads and like old vehicles. In my neighborhood probably one house in six or seven has some old iron in the garage.
So that is my very long winded way of saying I think old cars are part of our culture and aren't going away anytime soon. I believe the electronic aftermarket will survive and thrive. I had a Yamaha Virago with an electronically controlled ignition system. The best I can say it was a piece of garbage so bad it glowed. I replaced them regularly and they were expensive. Opening them up revealed all the IC and transistor numbers scratched off no schematic, parts list or anything else available. Today you can get schematics and stuff, non OEM replacement units and don't have to be held hostage to Yamaha. I think the electronics part of the equation is of little worry. My concern is more regular parts because there are so many that are unique to a relatively narrow range of cars especially body parts, glass and stuff but most importantly the golden key - software.
There is a right to repair battle going on and it seems farm equipment is in the middle especially a company known for a particular green. No doubt skfarmer has a lot of insight on the subject. I suppose at the end of the day it will be resolved more by politics than anything else so I won't say anything further.
As a knuckle dragger with some newer vehicles we "invested" in several scanner type units as well as some software to "adjust" factory computer stuff. One of which is HPtuners. This worked well for getting rid of antitheft stuff that was hindering several of our units from starting here and there. or it seemed to be until programing it out. Drawback was the money to get the "subscription" for the computer you were working with.
I also have some experience with aftermarket ecu type units. These require a bit of learning though some are easier than others. The drawback to me was/is the initial investment into the hardware and the start from scratch type wiring needed. I have been studying up for an ls swap of a 4.8/4l80e into our suburban. Been hunting a cargo van that has this drivetrain to get it "all" including the harness and such. Also looked at moving to an ls computer for our 99 suburban but haven't pulled the trigger on that yet either. Looks easy in theory but repining and such wasn't something I am ready to tackle yet. Just another dream at this point I guess.
I will say there are some pretty fantastic people out in the wild who understand and know how to make the factory stuff do way more than the factory lets it do. Then comes the aftermarket stuff that does even more than that.
I have often wondered how difficult it would be to "backward engineer" a modern engine to operate without all of the electronic support. Or at least, build a simpler, compatible ECM from robust components with less tendency to fail.
I don't think it would be impossible to build a distributor that simply runs off the camshaft like they used to.
And does any engine really NEED variable valve timing? That seems to be a common failure point these days.
How about eliminating the fuel injection? Wouldn't it be possible to remove the throttle body, fabricate a manifold and install an appropriately-sized carburetor?
I realize that modern cars are incredibly easier to operate and maintain compared to vehicles from the 1950s and 1960s, but that is assuming everything works.
Here in Kommifornia, an illuminated 'check engine' light means it isn't going to pass the biennial smog inspection. No smog certificate, no registration. Often, it is caused by some useless component that failed.
My youngest daughter had a 1999 VW Passat. Money light was on, so no smog cert. Checked codes and it was related to the EVAP system "leak detection pump". It had died. Mind you, there was no problem with the fuel EVAP system, only that the pump designed to pressurize the system periodically had failed. Yet the registration could not be renewed until that thing had been replaced and the light turned off. $375 for it, I had to disassemble half the car to install it.
Things like that just piss me off.